A LETTER TO DR VICTOR STENGER* BY PIPPA ABSTON**
REQUEST: READERS ARE INVITED TO POST ANY COMMENTS
On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:33 PM, Pippa wrote:
Hi Dr. Stenger-- enjoyed your book Quantum Gods and have suggested it to a liberal minister friend who was veering off into quantum tomfoolery. My father is a retired physicist and that sort of nonsense makes him very annoyed. I'm a pediatrician so lack the detailed knowledge to argue these points intelligently-- how lovely to have such a clear explanation in print! I'm sure for you, hearing these misinterpretations is similar to my experience watching medical drama in film-- rarely if ever correct.
The idea of Deism returning as a major thread of Christianity interests me. I was hoping for a more significant change, to a true non theist form. I am a sort of atheist Christian, definitely not a deist. I am very open on this issue and it doesn't seem to bother my fellow church members at all. And I live in Alabama! None have tried to talk me out of it, including my minister. I know some others who think the same way. We are fully atheist-- no need to imagine "something more" out there or do weird things to physics. But we are drawn to the other elements-- the poetry and metaphor, the stories, the music, the ritual, the community. I am not entirely sure why, but I think some of these things speak to the non-rational parts of our brains. Plus I'm pretty sure Jesus was a socialist.
Since I know humans wrote the bible, I'm free to enjoy the parts I want to. Some contributors were better than others. Some symbols, like the cross, don't mean much to me, but some, like communion, do. Not because I'm bloodthirsty, but because of the meal-sharing, and the reminder that we do use our very bodies (our time, our sweat) to earn the food we share.
For me, the "something more" is solely in the realm of subjective meaning, metaphor and poetry. The emergent process of poetics is of course entirely dependent on the material world so I don't mean to suggest a new kind of dualism. It is art-- a different way to describe subjective experience. We are clearly "connected" to each other in measurable ways, just not beyond a certain point. If I go bankrupt and into foreclosure, my neighbor's property value can suffer. I can't telepathically cure his ear infection. However, from a poetry perspective, hyperbole has a long history of respected use. Open a book of poems and try to take them literally-- would lead to madness, the same as the concrete interpretation of religious experience does.
Hitchens' argument would be that so much evil has been done in the name of Christianity that we should abandon it. That seems too superficial-- humans really go to war over money and power, and if they didn't have God as an excuse there would be something else. It's interesting that in the Scandinavian countries, Christianity is the state religion. Most citizens belong to a church and do their ceremonial events there, like weddings and funerals, but they don't believe in God.
The free thought groups I've attended spend too much time dwelling on debunking religion-- if they came up with some alternative communal liturgies, it might work better. Some poetry, music, etc. Too dry for my taste as it is.
Anyway, I have an idea, maybe crazy, that the best route might be to let Christianity "mature" into a secular phase the way it seems to have done in Scandinavia. I don't know of a poll that has assessed the frequency of people like me, but personally I see it increasing. At least the tolerance of it has increased. The risk of starting a new symbolic mythology, in an effort to cut out the distasteful aspects, is that it might have to pass through a true believer phase first. Plus as humans it might be better to acknowledge our dark side up front, so we know what to watch for. Our metaphors for who we are and where we've been don't need to be revisionist.
I have doubts that atheism without some symbolic, metaphorical community experience would be stable enough to last. Seems like that would open us up to new fundamentalisms, if people have these "oceanic feelings" like Freud but no context to put them in.
I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this.
Thanks,
Pippa Abston
Huntsville, AL
pabston@aol.com
COMMENT/REPLY BY DR VICTOR STENGER:
Pippa,
Thanks
for your very nice message. I hope you don't mind me copying it to my
discussion list where I am sure it will generate comment.
I'm
all for the social values of religion, but I wish they could be
accomplished without the mumbo jumbo. Also, Jesus was not such a great
moral teacher. See Dan Barker's
book Godless and my The Folly of Faith.
Vic
To join the list to hear the comments, see my home page
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Vic Stenger
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